Chat Log for 30 April 2008 in Power Match

[Barry Everett]

[2008/04/30 11:05] IM: Amilie Anatine: i assume upstairs is the auditorium?
[2008/04/30 11:05] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Meteora/206/162/27
[2008/04/30 11:05] The region you have entered is running a different simulator version. Click this message for details.
[2008/04/30 11:05] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2008/04/30 11:05] IM: Amilie Anatine: lol thats where i am
[2008/04/30 11:05] Connected
[2008/04/30 11:05] IM: Jayne Urqhart: VIP room
[2008/04/30 11:06] You: VIP Lounge folks.
[2008/04/30 11:06] IM: Amilie Anatine: beatiful builds!
[2008/04/30 11:06] Tara Yeats: hi Farnham - trying to get the tp to work...
[2008/04/30 11:06] IM: Taxus Gustafson: This teleporter is playing up, it won't let me sit
[2008/04/30 11:06] IM: Farnham Farrjones: it takes us to the teleport only...
[2008/04/30 11:06] Taxus Gustafson: hi farnham
[2008/04/30 11:06] IM: Amilie Anatine: you may have to just swim Taxus
[2008/04/30 11:06] IM: Farnham Farrjones: the TP system works OK. VIP
[2008/04/30 11:07] IM: Farnham Farrjones: it was... ???
[2008/04/30 11:07] Tara Yeats: lol - how mmanyi ways can an avie sit on a tp without it working?!
[2008/04/30 11:08] IM: Farnham Farrjones: Can uu TPO us up?
[2008/04/30 11:08] Pach Voom: HI and welcome
[2008/04/30 11:08] Taxus Gustafson: Hi all
[2008/04/30 11:08] Jayne Urqhart: hi
[2008/04/30 11:08] Butch Dae: Hi Taxus
[2008/04/30 11:09] IM: Amilie Anatine: who needs a tp?
[2008/04/30 11:09] zazen Manbi is Online
[2008/04/30 11:09] Amilie Anatine: i just tpd him
[2008/04/30 11:09] Amilie Anatine: did he crash?
[2008/04/30 11:09] Tara Yeats: whew - thanks
[2008/04/30 11:09] Amilie Anatine: hes down there
[2008/04/30 11:09] IM: Farnham Farrjones: Anybody else need a TP?
[2008/04/30 11:09] Amilie Anatine: hi hi we are standing up here
[2008/04/30 11:09] Amilie Anatine: follow me
[2008/04/30 11:10] Taxus Gustafson: where are we meeting today
[2008/04/30 11:10] Amilie Anatine: great builds :)
[2008/04/30 11:11] Tara Yeats: slowly it rezzes
[2008/04/30 11:11] You: Hi. in the VIP lounge...unless we want to meet outside...
[2008/04/30 11:11] IM: Amilie Anatine: outside is nice
[2008/04/30 11:11] Amilie Anatine: oops
[2008/04/30 11:11] Amilie Anatine: outiside sounds nice
[2008/04/30 11:11] Amilie Anatine: anywhere is ok with me
[2008/04/30 11:12] IM: Taxus Gustafson: there's a few meeting places here
[2008/04/30 11:12] Tara Yeats: HI Abers
[2008/04/30 11:13] Troy McLuhan is Online
[2008/04/30 11:13] You: Hello, everybody. This is Heidi's place. She may not be h
[2008/04/30 11:13] Polaris Snook is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:14] You: ere for questions, but said we could meet here.
[2008/04/30 11:14] Pach Voom: I'm representing Heidi today
[2008/04/30 11:14] You: Hi Pach!
[2008/04/30 11:14] Pach Voom: HI Farnham
[2008/04/30 11:15] You: Our group is quite casual, and meet once a week or so to see new sims and talk global collaboration.
[2008/04/30 11:15] Jamming Independent: neat
[2008/04/30 11:15] You: Hi, Jam.
[2008/04/30 11:15] Pach Voom: Great, sunds interesting
[2008/04/30 11:15] Amilie Anatine: im home sick today thats the only reason i could make it
[2008/04/30 11:15] Jamming Independent: Hi farnham, hi everyone
[2008/04/30 11:15] IM: Taxus Gustafson: plenty of jobs on offer in the Nordic countries
[2008/04/30 11:15] Curious George: Hello, everyone
[2008/04/30 11:15] Tara Yeats: Hi Jamming
[2008/04/30 11:15] Butch Dae: Hi Jamming
[2008/04/30 11:16] Tara Yeats: good use for a sickday Amilie ;-)
[2008/04/30 11:16] Jamming Independent: I mentioned it earlier, but I'll mention again -- new to the group, so excuse in advance silly newb mistakes on my part :)
[2008/04/30 11:16] Amilie Anatine: i wish i was home much more
[2008/04/30 11:16] Malburns Writer is Online
[2008/04/30 11:16] You: np, Jam. Have ytou joined the AVW in Ning.com?
[2008/04/30 11:17] Jamming Independent: yep, joined the ning group this week
[2008/04/30 11:17] You: Ami, one of the perks of sick leave...hope you're OK.
[2008/04/30 11:17] Amilie Anatine: sore throat, be fine. thanks :)
[2008/04/30 11:17] You: Tax, how r u?
[2008/04/30 11:17] Taxus Gustafson: fine, just found some spare time:-)
[2008/04/30 11:18] Tara Yeats: global collaboration raises the inevitable time difference issues... seems to be one of the biggest hassles at times!
[2008/04/30 11:18] You: One of the topics today, beside looking at this bootful sim, is the ida of a VW worker's guild...
[2008/04/30 11:18] Taxus Gustafson: I've just found out that putting uv maps on sculpties is not secure, so had to redo all my sculptie items
[2008/04/30 11:18] Jamming Independent: I must say, this is a more convenient time for those of us on the US east coast than most SL mtgs I go to!
[2008/04/30 11:19] You: Yes, Tara, as I expand into Itlay, Japan, Australia and Mars, I find myself stretched out...
[2008/04/30 11:19] Jamming Independent: great topic, farnham -- I saw the topic on the forum and was intrigued
[2008/04/30 11:19] Taxus Gustafson: it raises interesting debates at times
[2008/04/30 11:19] Malburns Writer: Hi All
[2008/04/30 11:20] Jamming Independent: hi malburns
[2008/04/30 11:20] You: Hey, Mal.
[2008/04/30 11:20] Jamming Independent: any thoughts on the little back-and-forth re: developer unions?
[2008/04/30 11:20] Butch Dae: Hi Mal
[2008/04/30 11:21] Malburns Writer: Hi Butch, Farnham
[2008/04/30 11:21] Amilie Anatine: yes i have a comment but i have to go back and look at the forum 1 sec
[2008/04/30 11:21] Tara Yeats: Jamming - what kind of developers, for starters?
[2008/04/30 11:21] Taxus Gustafson: I know we have a virtual business owners association now in sl
[2008/04/30 11:22] Jamming Independent: any kind of content developer in SL - scripters, machinima makers, designers, etc.
[2008/04/30 11:22] Aberswyth Ninetails is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:22] Schmee Cooper is Online
[2008/04/30 11:22] You: Actually, not just developers, all free lance professionals...
[2008/04/30 11:22] Jamming Independent: right
[2008/04/30 11:22] Ooey Oh is Online
[2008/04/30 11:23] Amilie Anatine: why dont we all go sit somewhhere?~~
[2008/04/30 11:23] zazen Manbi is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:23] Jamming Independent: sounds good amilie
[2008/04/30 11:23] You: Sittoing is good, even Avatars get tited ...
[2008/04/30 11:23] Jamming Independent: vop lounge?
[2008/04/30 11:23] Tara Yeats: LOL
[2008/04/30 11:23] Jamming Independent: er, vip lounge?
[2008/04/30 11:23] Ooey Oh is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:23] Malburns Writer: aha - boaRDROOM
[2008/04/30 11:24] Gamay Beaujolais : Mmmm, a fresh, fruity young red wine, Amilie Anatine!
[2008/04/30 11:24] You: VIP Lounge, wirth bar... and snacks...
[2008/04/30 11:24] Amilie Anatine: lol keeping it real
[2008/04/30 11:24] Ooey Oh is Online
[2008/04/30 11:24] Scotch on the Rocks : Enjoy your Scotch on the Rocks, Jamming Independent!
[2008/04/30 11:24] Amilie Anatine: so i guess a question is, for membership in a guild, who decides this, and who decides quality?
[2008/04/30 11:25] Amilie Anatine: i have run into "photographers" and "artists" who simply werent up to par, even though they were in various groups
[2008/04/30 11:25] Coffee Mug whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee
[2008/04/30 11:25] Ooey Oh is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:25] Tara Yeats: also, what's the purpose of the guild
[2008/04/30 11:25] Scotch on the Rocks : Ahhh, just what the doctor ordered!
[2008/04/30 11:25] Jamming Independent: yah, I think you need to discuss purpose of the guild before you can talk about membership, quality, etc.
[2008/04/30 11:25] Malburns Writer: is guild like a "union" or professional elite?
[2008/04/30 11:25] Gamay Beaujolais : Mmmm, how deliciosly fruity!
[2008/04/30 11:26] Persis Trilling is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:26] You: Maybe 'Association' is better to start. I thought point was to finding wirk, contracts, etc.
[2008/04/30 11:26] Amilie Anatine: this is what i had to say on the matter discussed: http://associationofvirtualworlds.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2008...
[2008/04/30 11:26] Jamming Independent: a guild in the traditional sense is an association of craftsmen in a particular trade
[2008/04/30 11:26] Jamming Independent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild
[2008/04/30 11:26] Malburns Writer: traditional sense would imply level of skill before membership
[2008/04/30 11:27] Jayne Urqhart: trade here might be too loosely defined for "guild", but professional association is more appropriate
[2008/04/30 11:27] Jamming Independent: whereas a union has more of a negotiating connotation
[2008/04/30 11:27] IM: Pach Voom: Yes
[2008/04/30 11:27] IM: Pach Voom: and a office for my Machinima
[2008/04/30 11:27] Amilie Anatine: guild is a nice name, with the hope that quality levels are kept
[2008/04/30 11:28] Jamming Independent: Well, whetehr you call it a guild, union or association, you need to define what your goals are
[2008/04/30 11:28] Taxus Gustafson: we need to look after ourselves, how do we prove we are professionans? as Amilie says hobbyists are causing problems
[2008/04/30 11:28] IM: Pach Voom: Thanks we are many to do the buliding around here
[2008/04/30 11:28] Amilie Anatine: ex. Realtor (R) is a registered guild, with quality specifications
[2008/04/30 11:28] Taxus Gustafson: professionals
[2008/04/30 11:28] Amilie Anatine: no i didnt say hobbyist are causing problems LOL totally opposite of what i said!!!!!
[2008/04/30 11:28] Amilie Anatine: i AM a hobbyist
[2008/04/30 11:28] Taxus Gustafson: sorry
[2008/04/30 11:28] Amilie Anatine: haha
[2008/04/30 11:28] Jamming Independent: so goal #1 = setting standards of professionalism?
[2008/04/30 11:29] Curious George is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:29] Malburns Writer: there are so many groups in SL - from professional to amateur to purely social - would need to be clearly defined to occupy new niche
[2008/04/30 11:29] Tara Yeats: seems to me the standards setting element may come along after a group gets formed - particularly given the moving target VWs are
[2008/04/30 11:29] Malburns Writer: am not sure what objective we are discussing
[2008/04/30 11:29] Amilie Anatine: yes and basically dont make it open enrollment, somehow the inductee has to be put to a test first
[2008/04/30 11:30] Amilie Anatine: so in the case of hobbyists, if they are great, they should be in for sure
[2008/04/30 11:30] IM: Pach Voom: ture
[2008/04/30 11:30] Tara Yeats: one example comes to mind: the NPIRL group - not possible in real life - relatively closed group
[2008/04/30 11:30] Amilie Anatine: i think its a closed group only because its so old and has gotten so big
[2008/04/30 11:30] Malburns Writer: and the architects groups too too
[2008/04/30 11:30] Jamming Independent: I'm unfamiliar with them, Tara - Could you explain what they do?
[2008/04/30 11:31] Scope Cleaver is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:31] You: What about something more active, like Employment Agency?
[2008/04/30 11:31] Tara Yeats: Jamming - its a group of SL creators who do some pretty amazing work, with builds that aren't possible in RL
[2008/04/30 11:31] Tara Yeats: they have a website
[2008/04/30 11:31] Malburns Writer: platform here is too new to easily define skill levels i think
[2008/04/30 11:31] Tara Yeats: website-blog with bunches of links
[2008/04/30 11:31] Taxus Gustafson: just looked at the group write up in search, sounds interesting
[2008/04/30 11:32] Jamming Independent: Am I wrong is seeing that one objective of the assoc. we're discussing is to have some moniker that denotes quality to RL companiess/orgs that wouldn't otherwise know that the NPIRL group mean something?
[2008/04/30 11:33] Amilie Anatine: yes jamming and i agree with that objective
[2008/04/30 11:33] Taxus Gustafson: are we talking across all vws or just sl/
[2008/04/30 11:33] Tara Yeats: One question I would have is... how would a guild differ from a group of developers forming a business - e.g., Millions of Us, the Sheep, Clever Zebra being examples
[2008/04/30 11:33] Aimee Wheeler is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:33] Amilie Anatine: i think we should cross virtual worlds
[2008/04/30 11:33] Jayne Urqhart: guilds are non-profit
[2008/04/30 11:33] Ooey Oh is Online
[2008/04/30 11:33] Taxus Gustafson: I'm in several now, like others here
[2008/04/30 11:34] Jamming Independent: Tara - At least where I come from here in DC, an association speaks for all members of the industry it represents, with the companies being members
[2008/04/30 11:34] Malburns Writer: professional societies usually exist outside employment structure, so sheep etc dont really count
[2008/04/30 11:34] Taxus Gustafson: the idea of a job finding service is also useful, here or elsewhere
[2008/04/30 11:34] Lor Gynoid is Online
[2008/04/30 11:34] Ooey Oh is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:35] Tara Yeats: Jamming - yes, I know the difference (was in association managment for some years) - so I'm raising some definition questions
[2008/04/30 11:35] Jamming Independent: ah hah
[2008/04/30 11:35] Toxie Cortes is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:35] Amilie Anatine: we discussed this once in linden office hours, having some kind of stamp of approval. lindens dont want to get involved but all of us thought it would be useful - it was a question of who would do it and what the standards of approval were - like AAA approved. ive been thinking about this for a while now
[2008/04/30 11:35] Jamming Independent: So objective #2 would be to give members of the assoc. a benefit (job board avail. only to assoc. members), correct?
[2008/04/30 11:35] Amilie Anatine: in fact i think me and my VP were going to have our own approval system in our own business, but we havent really nailed it down
[2008/04/30 11:35] Tara Yeats: so an association would be potentially open to existing businesses doing VW dev as well as individual freelancers
[2008/04/30 11:36] Amilie Anatine: yes and membership is based on approval of quality work
[2008/04/30 11:36] Tara Yeats: a VW Chamber of commerce, with different membership categories...
[2008/04/30 11:37] Malburns Writer: good track tara
[2008/04/30 11:37] Taxus Gustafson: yes, knowledge sharing would also be useful
[2008/04/30 11:37] Amilie Anatine: is there a difference between a guild and a chamber of commerce?
[2008/04/30 11:37] Jamming Independent: right - for example, Joe Smith could be an AVW Certified SL Machinima Creator
[2008/04/30 11:38] Jamming Independent: While Jane Smith would be AVN Certified There.com Content Developer
[2008/04/30 11:38] Jamming Independent: er, AVW Certified, rather
[2008/04/30 11:38] Amilie Anatine: we definitely need subgroups of "content"
[2008/04/30 11:38] Jamming Independent: right, of course
[2008/04/30 11:38] Taxus Gustafson: if you go down that road then qualifications become important, who polices the qualifications
[2008/04/30 11:39] Malburns Writer: certification is prob - there needs to be exam or something for that - and who conducts/creates that at this stage
[2008/04/30 11:39] Amilie Anatine: i say the guild can vote to choose who would police the qualifications
[2008/04/30 11:39] Amilie Anatine: nominations of officers etc
[2008/04/30 11:39] Jamming Independent: right
[2008/04/30 11:39] Tara Yeats: Yes, Taxus - and there are potgential issues around restraint of trade rules for nonprofit professional/trade assn's in the states
[2008/04/30 11:39] Taxus Gustafson: the language used whould need to be carefully thought out, as we cross several continents
[2008/04/30 11:39] Jayne Urqhart: could hook up with Rockcliffe U in here
[2008/04/30 11:39] Tara Yeats: assuming incorporation as such
[2008/04/30 11:40] Jamming Independent: The interesting thing about ceritdying ppl across VW paltforms is that you could roll it out in stages
[2008/04/30 11:40] Jamming Independent: i.e. - Month 1 - AVW Announces SL Sculptie Creation Certification
[2008/04/30 11:40] Amilie Anatine: cool!
[2008/04/30 11:40] Jamming Independent: Month 2 - AVN Announces Club Penguin Certification
[2008/04/30 11:40] Tara Yeats: identify some specific "trades" and work on them in stages
[2008/04/30 11:40] Jamming Independent: right
[2008/04/30 11:40] Amilie Anatine: <--- umbrella maker certified
[2008/04/30 11:41] Taxus Gustafson: an actual skill test isa good idea
[2008/04/30 11:41] Tara Yeats: and would also require finding/involving those already skilled to establish standards
[2008/04/30 11:41] Amilie Anatine: a friend of mine did a test on me and said, replicate these arches within 5 min
[2008/04/30 11:41] Taxus Gustafson: paper certificates vary from college to college
[2008/04/30 11:41] Jamming Independent: good idea re: finding skilled people to serve on a qualification jury, Tara
[2008/04/30 11:41] Amilie Anatine: portfoilios would be important
[2008/04/30 11:41] Jamming Independent: right
[2008/04/30 11:42] Jamming Independent: but there would need to be a practical component as well
[2008/04/30 11:42] Taxus Gustafson: I know I can produce sculpties, but is it the same type as others would make?
[2008/04/30 11:42] Amilie Anatine: agreed Taxus
[2008/04/30 11:42] Jamming Independent: i.e. - Build an airplane with dynamic lighting effects. You have 2 hours...
[2008/04/30 11:42] Amilie Anatine: not all building is the same.. sometimes textures are squished, seams are gapped
[2008/04/30 11:42] Troy McLuhan is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:42] Persis Trilling is Online
[2008/04/30 11:43] Jamming Independent: I think that's why you'd need some kind of expert jury to review work created
[2008/04/30 11:43] Amilie Anatine: how many in a jury?
[2008/04/30 11:43] Taxus Gustafson: plus art is different from engineering is different from building houses
[2008/04/30 11:43] Amilie Anatine: 3-5?
[2008/04/30 11:43] Jamming Independent: sure
[2008/04/30 11:43] Amilie Anatine: lag and traffic flow considerations too
[2008/04/30 11:43] Jamming Independent: I'd say 3, just cause it's easier
[2008/04/30 11:43] Taxus Gustafson: from different skill backgrounds
[2008/04/30 11:43] Amilie Anatine: maybe all of us could write down guildlines on good building in our opinions and consolidate them
[2008/04/30 11:43] Tara Yeats: ok, this is focusing at the moment on the "building stuff" side, but also there's the whole marketing side of business involvement in VWs...
[2008/04/30 11:44] Taxus Gustafson: yes, plus writing, scripting etc
[2008/04/30 11:44] IM: Jayne Urqhart: Is it me, or do these meetings always seem to come down to building?
[2008/04/30 11:44] Taxus Gustafson: a vasta rray of skills
[2008/04/30 11:44] Taxus Gustafson: vast array
[2008/04/30 11:44] Jamming Independent: indeed
[2008/04/30 11:44] Tara Yeats: and the slowly emerging "best practices" - i.e., what works for RL businesses in VWs to make it workth doing
[2008/04/30 11:44] Taxus Gustafson: please note I'm not putting my typing skills forward as a skill;-)
[2008/04/30 11:45] Malburns Writer: there are as many skill here as in rl almost - building, scripting etc are putting this discussion into narrow focus
[2008/04/30 11:45] Jamming Independent: lol
[2008/04/30 11:45] Tara Yeats: lol Taxus
[2008/04/30 11:45] Amilie Anatine: RE: business side... practicices such as communication skills, availability, have paypal or international money exchanges
[2008/04/30 11:45] IM: Jayne Urqhart: yes very true
[2008/04/30 11:45] Malburns Writer: AVW implies something at higher level
[2008/04/30 11:45] Amilie Anatine: and CONTRACTS
[2008/04/30 11:45] IM: Jayne Urqhart: but it is short-sighted
[2008/04/30 11:45] IM: Jayne Urqhart: :)
[2008/04/30 11:45] Jamming Independent: I think you start small with a few deliverables as an association and then work your way up
[2008/04/30 11:45] Amilie Anatine: copyrights too! businesses dont want to get sued cause their developer copied, then who is responsible?
[2008/04/30 11:46] IM: Jayne Urqhart: me neither
[2008/04/30 11:46] Jamming Independent: don't want to drown in the details right now, but I think these are all great topics for discussion
[2008/04/30 11:46] IM: Jayne Urqhart: I just find it a little frustrating - looking for a place for knowledge management professionals. I'm ready to go, but it seems that we ain't there yet
[2008/04/30 11:46] Troy McLuhan is Online
[2008/04/30 11:46] Tara Yeats: I wonder... does this suggest a new "interest group" within AVW? AVW would seem the logical umbrella org at the moment
[2008/04/30 11:47] Amilie Anatine: yes i think this should be seperate from AVW, because AVW is already open enrollment
[2008/04/30 11:47] Taxus Gustafson: I think this is why so many guilds in the past concentrated in specific skills, now we need to combine all those skills
[2008/04/30 11:47] Malburns Writer: maybe Kelly or someone like could help establish some kind of qualification/best practice system - employment agencies should approve of that
[2008/04/30 11:47] Amilie Anatine: maybe we should invite our favorite experts to form a panel
[2008/04/30 11:48] Amilie Anatine: like i would nominate Scope Cleaver for the panel
[2008/04/30 11:48] Jamming Independent: So AVN would be more of a coordinating body among the various expert groups?
[2008/04/30 11:48] Poid Mahovlich is Online
[2008/04/30 11:48] IM: Jayne Urqhart: that too is a very new profession. I decided to go into it because it is multidisciplinary and versatile, but still a long way to go, even in the avant-garde world of vws
[2008/04/30 11:48] Jamming Independent: er, AVW
[2008/04/30 11:48] Malburns Writer: scope for a buliders panel for sure
[2008/04/30 11:48] Jamming Independent: (I'll get it right sooner or later)
[2008/04/30 11:48] Tara Yeats: Amilie - it's notg uncommon for a prof association tgo include some kind of standards body or certification body as one of its functions
[2008/04/30 11:48] Tara Yeats: there's general membership, and then process for certification
[2008/04/30 11:48] Jamming Independent: right
[2008/04/30 11:49] Jamming Independent: I have to run abck to RL in about 10 minutes, unfortunately
[2008/04/30 11:49] Amilie Anatine: oh i thought there would be no general membership, only certified membership
[2008/04/30 11:49] Tara Yeats: and I'm thinking AVW may have already put the wheels in motion to set up a formal nonprofit assn
[2008/04/30 11:49] Taxus Gustafson: many guilds have layers of skills
[2008/04/30 11:49] IM: Jayne Urqhart: yes, same. I'm determined to make a career of this - blend the two :)
[2008/04/30 11:49] Amilie Anatine: ah i see layers of certification, ok that makes sense
[2008/04/30 11:50] Taxus Gustafson: how many of us got our skills in a linear way and how many got them by picking up what they needed when they needed it?
[2008/04/30 11:50] You: Guilds have apprentices, good way to bring in help while ppl build their skills
[2008/04/30 11:50] Amilie Anatine: well, yes i still see AVW as an umbrella association over the guild.. because this AVW can be open to the customers (non developers)
[2008/04/30 11:51] Amilie Anatine: i taught myself when i needed it
[2008/04/30 11:51] Taxus Gustafson: yes, likewise
[2008/04/30 11:51] You: klaatu should be here...
[2008/04/30 11:51] Tara Yeats: yea, hard to be in this "environment" and not constantly be adding to one's skillset!
[2008/04/30 11:51] Tara Yeats: target moves too fast not to be
[2008/04/30 11:51] Taxus Gustafson: yes true:-)
[2008/04/30 11:52] Jamming Independent: So what are the next steps?
[2008/04/30 11:52] Jamming Independent: I'd say we put down the ideas we've had here on "paper"
[2008/04/30 11:53] Jamming Independent: maybe some kind of working document that defines what the goals of the assoc. will be?
[2008/04/30 11:53] Amilie Anatine: yes jamming
[2008/04/30 11:53] Tara Yeats: I'd also like to chat w/Dave Eichoness (however its spelled) on what AVW thinking/planning is at this point
[2008/04/30 11:53] You: Anyone opposed to publishing these logs on the KN page?
[2008/04/30 11:53] IM: Pach Voom: funny we had the same discusion a week ago, with the Danish group
[2008/04/30 11:53] Taxus Gustafson: no
[2008/04/30 11:53] Tara Yeats: no objection here, Farn
[2008/04/30 11:53] Jamming Independent: nope
[2008/04/30 11:53] Jayne Urqhart: no
[2008/04/30 11:53] Malburns Writer: feel free Farnham (from me)
[2008/04/30 11:53] Amilie Anatine: ah yes of course Dave could have input.. but would this be under Dave's control or ownership?
[2008/04/30 11:54] Keystone Bouchard is Online
[2008/04/30 11:54] You: No, this is a separate group.
[2008/04/30 11:54] Tara Yeats: Amilie - think it's more a question of clarifying what direction this would go, whether part of AVW or free-standing
[2008/04/30 11:54] You: IMHO
[2008/04/30 11:54] IM: Pach Voom: same here and I know Heidi feels the same way
[2008/04/30 11:54] Amilie Anatine: what about Hydra Shaftoe, he made the proposal
[2008/04/30 11:54] Amilie Anatine: hes not with us here in the room though
[2008/04/30 11:55] Jamming Independent: amilie - what proposal?
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: the link i just sent
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: http://associationofvirtualworlds.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2008...
[2008/04/30 11:55] Jamming Independent: ah, right
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: this was a forum topic on AVW
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: he wrote it
[2008/04/30 11:55] IM: Pach Voom: We are both in the same research project http://worlds.ruc.dk/
[2008/04/30 11:55] Heidi Ballinger is Online
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: does he build for clever zebra?
[2008/04/30 11:55] Jamming Independent: you mean the one I commented on? ;p
[2008/04/30 11:55] Tara Yeats needs to spend some quality time reading stuff at AVW... lol
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: yes we both commented on it
[2008/04/30 11:55] Amilie Anatine: need more comments there
[2008/04/30 11:56] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2008/04/30 11:56] Connected
[2008/04/30 11:56] Malburns Writer: shall i ask Hyrda here?
[2008/04/30 11:56] You: Sure...
[2008/04/30 11:56] Jamming Independent: OK I have to run abck to RL, unfortunately
[2008/04/30 11:56] Amilie Anatine: yes of course im surprised hes not here
[2008/04/30 11:56] Troy McLuhan is Offline
[2008/04/30 11:56] IM: Pach Voom: Yes I know
[2008/04/30 11:56] Jamming Independent: looking forward to reading the chat log when it gets posted
[2008/04/30 11:56] Jamming Independent: bye everyone!
[2008/04/30 11:56] You: Jam, thanks and welcome...
[2008/04/30 11:56] Tara Yeats: good to meet you Jamming!
[2008/04/30 11:56] Amilie Anatine: see you jamming
[2008/04/30 11:57] Jamming Independent: same here, can't wait to continue the discussion
[2008/04/30 11:57] Pach Voom: anyone have Q about this sim is free to ask, I'll answer in voice
[2008/04/30 11:58] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[2008/04/30 11:58] Connected
[2008/04/30 11:58] You: If you can stay a while, I kere's time...now Heidi would like to be here and chat if th
[2008/04/30 11:58] Pach Voom: Hi Heidi
[2008/04/30 11:58] Taxus Gustafson: I recognised danish and swedish I think, is it Nordic?
[2008/04/30 11:59] Malburns Writer: Hydra can come in few minutes
[2008/04/30 11:59] Tara Yeats: Hi Heidi :-)
[2008/04/30 11:59] Pach Voom: similar
[2008/04/30 11:59] Heidi Ballinger: Hi every one :-)
[2008/04/30 11:59] Amilie Anatine: hi Heidi
[2008/04/30 11:59] Taxus Gustafson: hi Heidi
[2008/04/30 11:59] You: Hello. See we haven't torn uop the furniture...
[2008/04/30 11:59] Jayne Urqhart: many thanks, must run
[2008/04/30 11:59] Jayne Urqhart: bye
[2008/04/30 11:59] Taxus Gustafson: bye Jayne
[2008/04/30 11:59] You: Bye Jayne
[2008/04/30 11:59] Tara Yeats: LOL Farnham... tho we do keep standing on the table ;-)
[2008/04/30 12:00] Heidi Ballinger: Hehe Farnham, I'm very proud of you !!
[2008/04/30 12:00] Amilie Anatine: im going to wait for hydra before i ask more questions
[2008/04/30 12:00] You: Thanks Pach
[2008/04/30 12:00] You have offered friendship to Pach Voom
[2008/04/30 12:00] Pach Voom is Online
[2008/04/30 12:00] Malburns Writer: is anyone here in Myrl yet - or other cross-VW networks?
[2008/04/30 12:00] Amilie Anatine: im in openlife
[2008/04/30 12:01] You: Myrl
[12:01] Taxus Gustafson: I'm in a few, am waiting to here from Myrl
[12:01] Pach Voom: Just got to be a member 1 hour ago
[12:01] You: is there a good wiki list on all the worlds?
[12:01] You: i think i had one but i lost it
[12:01] Malburns Writer: Myrl is sending invites a slow pace - but regular
[12:01] Tara Yeats: Amilie - list of VWs? AVW has just produced one
[12:01] You: i tried to go into The but failed, i forgot why
[12:02] Taxus Gustafson: I think the last list mentioned 250 vws
[12:02] You: i signed up for zwinky LOLLLLLL doesnt work well for me
[12:02] Tara Yeats: LOL
[12:03] Tara Yeats: seems to me that developing in more than one VW at this stage may be limited to existing bigger dev orgs such as MOU &I Sheep, who are already moving that direction, seems
[12:03] Taxus Gustafson: things are growing rapidly with both vws and mirror worlds
[12:03] You: i just want something that works. openlife is promising, but frustrating
[12:03] Taxus Gustafson: haven;t been there yet
[12:04] You: openlife needs more staff
[12:04] Taxus Gustafson: it still a wild west place I hear
[12:04] Malburns Writer: Dave Elchoness was asking me if i could find an independent listing of VW events - ie not agenda of any vendor
[12:04] Tara Yeats: open life is open source?
[12:04] Taxus Gustafson: I get virtual worlds weekly
[12:04] Taxus Gustafson: thats pretty good
[12:05] You: well OpenLife isnt really open source, but the developers are providing the opensim application for people to run but they cannot connect to the mainland yet
[12:05] You: openlife are using the realextend viewer
[12:05] You: also can use the sl viewer
[12:05] Tara Yeats: ok
[12:05] You: i own a sim in openlife, there is no commerce yet
[12:05] You: many things arent working yet
[12:06] You: only recently were we able to transfer inventory to other avitars
[12:06] Tara Yeats sets out the "under construction" signs
[12:06] You: eek for sure
[12:06] Malburns Writer: yes - they are good newsfeed but tied to their own conferencesshows
[12:06] You: i like going there because its so empty and i relax during building
[12:07] You: but cannot transfer openlife inventory out yet
[12:07] Taxus Gustafson: it would be nice for all the vws to be more opensource
[12:07] Taxus Gustafson: to move between different worlds
[12:07] You: well that would mean we need to run opensim locally
[12:07] You: i havent gotten it to run yet, but some people have, but they have troubles
[12:07] You: lots of troubles
[12:08] Taxus Gustafson: we have recently in sl as well, i think its par for the course
[12:08] Taxus Gustafson: but a portal way would be useful
[12:08] Hydra Shaftoe: hi there :)
[12:08] Malburns Writer: Hi Hydra - thought you might be interested in this
[12:08] Taxus Gustafson: hi Hydra
[12:08] You: hi Hydra thanks for coming!
[12:08] Hydra Shaftoe: sure
[12:09] Malburns Writer: Farnham is one who convened really
[12:09] Hydra Shaftoe: of course nothing's ressed, so no clue where i am :)
[12:09] Tara Yeats: Hi Hydra :-)
[12:09] You: you are standing in a tub of grapes hydra
[12:09] Tara Yeats: um, you're standing on a conference table ;-)
[12:09] Farnham Farrjones: Hey, Hydra.
[12:09] Butch Dae: Hi Hydra
[12:09] Hydra Shaftoe: hiya!
[12:09] Hydra Shaftoe: oh butch is here too.
[12:10] Malburns Writer: Think Farnham crashed
[12:10] Tara Yeats: Faernham was here but appears to have crashed or left - suspect crash
[12:10] You: i suggested they bring you hear hydra because of the forum you posted on guilds
[12:10] Farnham Farrjones: I'm back but not rezzed yet?
[12:10] You: i see you farnham
[12:10] Hydra Shaftoe: oh ok
[12:10] Tara Yeats: ahh - there you are, Farnham
[12:11] Hydra Shaftoe: well yeah I can go into that whenever yall are ready
[12:11] Farnham Farrjones: boo
[12:11] Hydra Shaftoe: been doingt a lot of thinking on it
[12:11] Tara Yeats: ga, Hydra
[12:11] Malburns Writer: Sute Hydra - your thoughts?
[12:11] Hydra Shaftoe: voice ok? Im not so good expressing myself on the button-pushing thingy
[12:11] You: i am listening
[12:11] Malburns Writer: fine by me
[12:11] Farnham Farrjones: Hydra, b4 you go. Can somebody please capture the log after 12 today. I have the rest of it and already oosted on KN.
[12:12] Farnham Farrjones: posted
[12:12] You: i got the log
[12:12] Farnham Farrjones: We really need ad for members of the group not here... text captire for later an
[12:12] You: i log all my chats
[12:12] Farnham Farrjones: text chat needed
[12:13] You: ok so hydra brings up rates...
[12:14] You: well fyi before you got here hydra we were talking about how to organize this and people experts.. so Tara, this would be under the business part of it?
[12:14] Farnham Farrjones: Anyway I've got to go - RL meeting ptui... Please stay as long as they will let you. Thanks again Pach, and Heidi...
[12:14] You: yes i agree maybe depending on your level of certification "apprentice" you should have a minimum rate
[12:14] Tara Yeats: the obvious issue on rates is those viewing it as strictly inworld l$L, vs. those looking at itg as providing RL income levels
[12:15] You: i agree with hydra
[12:15] Taxus Gustafson: bye Farnham, enjoy the meeting
[12:15] You: bye farnham
[12:15] Farnham Farrjones: http://associationofvirtualworlds.ning.com/group/knowledgenetworkin...
[12:15] You: certification based on portfolio
[12:15] You: yes i agree with malburns
[12:16] You: oh dear hydra really?
[12:16] You: unfortunatley i believe it
[12:17] You: (for the chat record, Hydra Shaftoe and Malburns Writer are talking in voice about inviting experts such as Scope Cleaver to determine who would be up to par for membership)
[12:18] You: (chat record: need of a system to coordinate who the professionals are)
[12:18] You: (chat record: different expertises we should encompase.. certifications for each industry)
[12:18] Hydra Shaftoe: Thanks amilie
[12:19] You: yes we discussed this earlier and i agree with the diff industrys
[12:19] Tara Yeats: One issue: how does this differr from web design? yes, there are some groups, but it's "let the buyer beware" for web design, which is far more "mature" as a trade...
[12:19] You: (chat record: fashion industry? -- harper barisford? and penny ?? ..)
[12:19] You: (raven pennyfeather for example on experts in fashion industry)
[12:20] You: (chat record: do we all agree to have standards and how to keep people in or out?)
[12:20] Taxus Gustafson: how do we enforce work being stolen and passed off
[12:21] You: (chat record: in attendence here now are Butch Dae, Taxus Gustafson, Tara Yeats, Hydra Shaftoe, Malburns Writer and me)
[12:21] Tara Yeats: agree w/Mal about focusing on promoting qualifications rather than a "dont hir this person" which raises huge ethical/legal issues
[12:21] Taxus Gustafson: those skills could tie in with colleges teaching in sl now?
[12:21] You: (chat record: start with people that are the best already and SLOWLY not rapidly pull in the qualifieds according to the guild founder)
[12:22] You: yes we discussed this before you got here Hyrda i do agree with starting with the xperts
[12:22] You: (lindens interested but didnt feel it was their place)
[12:22] Tara Yeats: I also think there's vast room for promoting/educating businesses about what to look for to find skilled people
[12:22] You: (sldev?? dont do much to certify??)
[12:23] You: actually Hyrda the sldev are more interested in quality of the user interface and service i think
[12:23] Hydra Shaftoe: I havent seen much out of them
[12:23] Hydra Shaftoe: I see
[12:23] You: FYI-->sldev group is a linden group based on the "second life grid" listing of businesses, this is open enrollment and no certification necessary for membership
[12:24] Hydra Shaftoe: oh I see
[12:24] Hydra Shaftoe: ok
[12:24] You: (for example adobe certification...)
[12:24] You: no lindens wont do it, i talked with some lindens about it before
[12:24] Malburns Writer: adove perfect example
[12:24] You: its too much for them
[12:24] You: i think it should be community run personally yes
[12:25] You: FYI-->(text in parentheses) is me trying to transcribe the main ideas of the voice chat going on here now
[12:25] Hydra Shaftoe: events, furniture, scripting, fashion, building
[12:25] You: what will we call the main guild?
[12:25] Taxus Gustafson: some skills like art or architecture could be down to personal taste
[12:26] You: "Virtual developer guild"
[12:26] Taxus Gustafson: how do we differ between personal taste and skill?
[12:26] You: i think there should be a global name
[12:26] Tara Yeats: Taxus - very good question - I think standards have to be spelled out in a way that people *know* what they have to do to be certified
[12:26] Hydra Shaftoe: peer review, taxus
[12:27] You: the reason i think there should be one is because private companies might come up with their own private guilds and they are members of them.. they will take the keywords unless we take them asap
[12:27] Tara Yeats: so it doesn't turn into just another way to try to keep people out
[12:27] Tara Yeats: i.e., the issues of gatekeeping
[12:27] You: (voice transcript: do we need to charge a small fee to keep the website or group going? just to pay for fees)
[12:28] You: i honestly dont want the lindens involved
[12:28] You: oh fees in lindens he meant
[12:28] You: oh i thought you were talking about linden labs
[12:28] You: lol
[12:28] You: i dont want LL involved
[12:28] You: yes real money
[12:28] Taxus Gustafson: the money between lindens and other currency is to be opened up soon
[12:28] You: would he make the minimum guild standard fee?
[12:28] Taxus Gustafson: so can pay via paypal now
[12:29] Butch Dae: Why not use a wiki, it's a lot easier and cheaper?
[12:29] Tara Yeats: Farnham had to leave
[12:29] You: (voice: we should pay the webmaster for his time on maintaining the site)
[12:29] You: i personally think ning.com is a great start
[12:30] You: (voice Hydra- find about 10 professionals in each group, identify diff groups/guilds)
[12:30] Tara Yeats: one thing I think we need to address even before identifying groups is how to make information visible and worthwhile to biz's looking to come inworld
[12:30] Taxus Gustafson: braking down different skills could be difficult with skills crossing groups
[12:30] Tara Yeats: i.e., if beilng in a guild is going to be useful, it needs to reach those who are buying those skills
[12:30] You: yes for sure, farrnahm suggested we all write stuff down in writing and then share it?
[12:31] You: can we post all these writrings in a private wiki?
[12:31] You: no hes prob not coming back
[12:31] Tara Yeats: Mal, read the text - he had a meeting to go to
[12:31] You: but i dont think we should try to finish this list right now
[12:31] You: i think we should sleep on it
[12:31] You: is there a way to share files in the ning network?
[12:31] Tara Yeats: we can hear you, but you need to read us! lol
[12:32] You: (voice hydra: cover databases, AI, think outside the box for things that tie into virtual worlds that arent contained)
[12:32] You: (voice malburns: true the back end stuff)
[12:32] You: transcription is hard lol
[12:32] You: expecially cause i want to talk too!
[12:32] You: lol
[12:32] You: nobody knows how to start i think, its alot of work
[12:33] You: i volunteer to try to recruit the experts in furniture and clothing
[12:33] Tara Yeats: true, Akmilik - it's not just a "put up a website" thing
[12:33] Taxus Gustafson: there are also insular interests at work
[12:33] You: (voice: hyrda and malburns comment about being how they are experts in single fields rather than everything)
[12:33] You: are you referring to my comment hydra?
[12:33] Tara Yeats: there are definitely concerns as far as "gatekeeping"
[12:34] You: (voice hydra: will we have an inworld backlash?)
[12:34] Hydra Shaftoe: dont remember who it was
[12:34] You: yes it was my comment
[12:34] You: (hydra: we have room for skilled amateurs)
[12:34] You: I am a hobbyist hydra
[12:34] You: my 1st life is nothing to do with SL
[12:35] You: i work full time too
[12:35] You: please others, just jump in, im just typing the voice transcript
[12:35] Taxus Gustafson: the aim is quality and reputation I think
[12:35] You: no i honestly dont think you should try to create a division or define hobbyist
[12:36] You: well hydra, the LL site has distinction between "full service company" and "consultant"
[12:36] Butch Dae: Aren't you setting yourselves up to become a wipping post.
[12:36] You: (voice malburns: hours you work are not important, so evening hobbyists are not at disadvantage)
[12:36] You: NO DISTINCTION
[12:36] Tara Yeats: gButch - say more?
[12:36] You: I have done better than some other known professionals im sure
[12:37] You: seriously, if you have to build something who cares what time you do this at? i can call someone any time of day, i just walk out of my office in 1st life and have a private break, so no distinction no
[12:37] You: sorry i feel very strongly about it, i am a hobbyist
[12:37] Butch Dae: I've seen a lot of "standards" committies come a go.
[12:37] You: (voice hydra: we are in agreement, no distinction with hobbyist)
[12:37] You: well the term hobby has negative connotations
[12:38] You: it will cost me good jobs
[12:38] Butch Dae: It is a real tough business.
[12:38] You: i know some great builders who are still students
[12:38] You: (voice malburns
[12:38] Tara Yeats: I need to say I have concerns about trlying to define "standards" - what seems more important to me is how we get new businesses to take VWs seriously, AND to be effective in those places...
[12:38] You: (voice malburns: its skill that counts, but we all started out as hobbyists)
[12:38] Tara Yeats: which ;is where knowhing WHAT to look for form developers/builders comes into it
[12:39] You: (hydra: we need mobility for people to change certifications or allow them to have multiple certifications)
[12:39] You: malburns agrees, so do i
[12:39] You: (voice malburns: this will tie in with educational estabilishments which is a big growth industry)
[12:39] Taxus Gustafson: training should be modular
[12:39] You: did you just say educational industries would provide their own standards for education?
[12:40] You: (malburns: notes schools popping up)
[12:40] You: building schools?
[12:40] Butch Dae: Maybe you should find out why the Linden's program failed or didn't workout?
[12:40] You: (hydra: what will we do about training personell, do we want to provide the training?)
[12:41] You: (malburns: things go so fast that traditions of apprenticeship and titles might not hold true here - things change so much - maybe it will be the current standard and keep on training and stay up to par)
[12:41] You: again, i think portfolio is key
[12:42] Taxus Gustafson: portfolios are always helpful
[12:42] You: (malburns: idea of middle men, i.e. Kelly corporation, to provide the skills or manage the people)
[12:42] You: (hydra: wants to invite horatio ???
[12:42] You: (hydra: wants to invite Manpower services)
[12:43] Tara Yeats: Hey guys... this needs a LOT more disclussion before brining Manpower/Kelly into it I think
[12:43] You: (malburns: agrees, they do alot of work and are experts at this, can talk about this )
[12:43] You: (hydra: they have everything ready to go and have in world people online all the time)
[12:43] You: i applaud kelly for being in world all the time, thats the key
[12:44] Butch Dae: Have to run. Take care everyone.
[12:44] You: bye butch!
[12:44] Taxus Gustafson: bye Butch
[12:44] Tara Yeats: Can I suggest please that tghis get posted at AVW and opened to more discussion before further work happen?
[12:44] You: (malburns: kelly and manpower are the bridge between skills and jobs, and educational institutions have a presence and provide degrees in world, for knowledge managment)
[12:45] You: (hydra: phd program for virtual world sciences from de vry university
[12:45] You: ok lets back up a little?
[12:45] Tara Yeats doesn't think my text comments are being read
[12:45] You: yes i agree with tara
[12:45] Tara Yeats: I have major reservatioins - please read back to my comments
[12:45] You: ok let me read back.. hold on...
[12:46] Tara Yeats: I tlhink it's probably premature to try to set standards, but not premature to work at educating businesses
[12:46] Tara Yeats: about effective builds, best practices, etc
[12:46] You: oh yes we need to do more work before bringing in any corporation to help us
[12:46] You: i mean, im stil a hobbyist
[12:47] Tara Yeats: and orgs like Chambers of Commerce have to use great care when it comes to tgalking about rates and prices
[12:47] You: i try to educate businesses ALL the time, but taking it seriously is another matter, yes i agree hydra
[12:48] You: (hydra: time to set up professional organizations)
[12:48] You: but hydra, dont you think the names of the content experts should be on the panel rather than the company kelly or manpower first?
[12:48] You: someone had to teach kelly and manpower
[12:48] Tara Yeats: troublie is, those best practices are just barely starting to emerge
[12:49] You: (hyra: wants a company respected in the corporate world to help us distribute the info - so prefers manpower)
[12:49] You: will manpower do this for us for free?
[12:49] You: and would they be sponsors ?
[12:50] You: (hyrda: they might, but we can provide them a list of skilled people so they can pimp out to others for hire)
[12:50] Tara Yeats: as soon as someone like Manpower or Kelly provides services, they then call the shots
[12:50] You: i agre with tara!!!!!
[12:50] Tara Yeats: so their interests can well diverge from ours
[12:50] You: they can be sponsors, but this should be community run i think
[12:50] You: i agree tara!
[12:50] You: (hydra: yes tara they will call the shots you are correct)
[12:50] Taxus Gustafson: if its run by vw users it may be more attractive to other vw users
[12:51] Tara Yeats: If they're your customer, that's one thing - you are getting paid to dance to their tune
[12:51] You: if i miss your idea in the voice transcript please type if for me, this is going on the record
[12:51] You: (hydra: best to keep it simple for now and come up with the list of who the best of the best are, malburns agrees)
[12:51] Tara Yeats: a beautiful build doesn't mean a successful effort for a business - that doesn't measure ROI or biz bottom line
[12:52] You: i agree totally
[12:52] You: too early to bring manpower into this
[12:52] You: i agree tara
[12:52] Tara Yeats: as soon as we forget that, we do wonderful builds of gbhost towns and SL is already littered with them
[12:52] You: i have been building for almost 2 years now, and there are alot to consider
[12:52] Taxus Gustafson: plus theres more than one way to do something often
[12:52] You: what works in rl doesnt work in SL
[12:52] Tara Yeats: so that's why marketing focus and real success stories are so critical
[12:53] You: (hydra: i can benefit from knowing who the event managers are)
[12:53] You: (malburns: the metaverse is not rl, it requries diff skills)
[12:53] You: i agree ive been saying this for 2 years!!!!
[12:53] You: rl companies dont listen!
[12:53] Tara Yeats: yup
[12:53] You: i have run an island for 6 months with traffic of 45K
[12:53] You: i worked on it all the time
[12:54] You: if one teleporter was busted, traffic plumeted
[12:54] You: (hyra: this is why i brought it up in the first place because sl develoers are showing they REALLY do know what they are doing, and rl companies will listen and respect it)
[12:55] You: (malburns: when the other 9 fail and realize the 1 of the 10 actually listens.. the other 9 will change their strategy or leave, but its painfully slow)
[12:55] You: its so sad
[12:55] You: lol
[12:55] You: ive seen it
[12:55] You: sad sad :((
[12:55] Taxus Gustafson: its a culture problem
[12:55] You: waaaaaaaaaaa (cries)
[12:55] You: i have to take a 2 min break brb
[12:55] Tara Yeats: O
[12:55] You: i tried to advise on the motor sims, but i cant name names right now
[12:56] You: i could see all the weaknesses
[12:56] You: ya
[12:56] Tara Yeats: let's call this a wrap for today to be continued - I need a break tgoo!
[12:56] You: (hydra: yea alot of people did, including me)
[12:56] You: (hydra: they didnt give a damn, theyr like who the hell are you)
[12:56] Tara Yeats: we've already gone for 2 hours - there's another day, and we need more folks involved in any case
[12:56] You: i wanted to write that because this is exactly the problem
[12:56] You: they see you with ears and they think, oh ... a gamer
[12:56] You: but i have to go afk
[12:57] You: so please continue, im good to come back
[12:58] You: back
[12:58] You: mmm got me ice cream
[12:59] You: (malburns: going on 2 hours now, hydra: i dont have anything better to do) LOL
[12:59] You: i work during the day
[12:59] You: i would love to but i cant
[12:59] Tara Yeats: started at 11SL time
[13:00] Tara Yeats: 2 hours is enuf for one day - I need to do some other things
[13:00] You: (hyra: meeting with farrham regularly in the knowledge networking group(
[13:00] Taxus Gustafson: yes its 11am today but Farnham does have meets on other days
[13:00] You: "knowledge networking"group
[13:00] You: (hydra: i guess thats it)
[13:00] Tara Yeats: yes, good thoughts, hydra!
[13:01] You: (malburns: hope to see you next week, thanks for coming!)
[13:01] You: very great talk!!
[13:01] You: bye hydra
[13:01] Malburns Writer: Returns to text
[13:01] You: ok we are the hardcores left
[13:01] You: taxus are you still here?
[13:01] Taxus Gustafson: yes just about
[13:01] You: lol
[13:01] You: ok so to summarize, we all need to list out all our ideas
[13:01] Taxus Gustafson: watching traffic from other groups as well
[13:02] You: list all the guilds
[13:02] You: the people who are experts at each
[13:02] You: and the goals of this effort
[13:02] Taxus Gustafson: this is an opportunity to literally build from the ground up
[13:02] You: what the first steps are
[13:02] You: what to name it, who will run it, who will be involved, will there be a fee etc
[13:02] You: everyone should write this out and then we can all share our papers
[13:02] Taxus Gustafson: yes, but its a vast undertaking
[13:03] You: yes but we all agre to start out small
[13:03] You: is taht correct?
[13:03] You: i can give alot of insight on furniture makers and fashion
[13:03] Malburns Writer: i think will take off with individual specialists after structure is in place
[13:03] Taxus Gustafson: we need basics to build on
[13:03] You: yes
[13:03] You: Tara, you had alot to say about the business side...
[13:04] You: sorry im not really moderating this meeting, i just type fast.. please interrupt me
[13:05] Malburns Writer: We should prob ask Farnham to co-ordinate all this if he is game for it
[13:05] You: he will read this entire log
[13:05] Taxus Gustafson: part of the problem at the moment is keeping people interested in sl, many premium accounts are leaving
[13:06] Taxus Gustafson: how many of them are 'builders'?
[13:06] Tara Yeats: scrolling back to catch up
[13:06] You: true, ive seen older profiles where they have left.. with only remnants of what their life was like before
[13:06] You: old builds are now gone, malls in place etc
[13:06] You: land fees on class 5 are just too high for some to stay maybe
[13:07] Taxus Gustafson: yes but am thinking of peopel and skills
[13:07] Taxus Gustafson: many have left
[13:07] Taxus Gustafson: I wonder whats behind it all/
[13:07] You: yes i am thinking of those types too taxus
[13:07] You: maybe we should take a survey
[13:07] You: but a word of mouth type private one
[13:07] You: talk to individuals?
[13:08] Taxus Gustafson: yes, would be interesting to see results
[13:08] Malburns Writer: some of the best have prob taken interest in other platforms now too
[13:08] Malburns Writer: it's not all SL any more
[13:08] You: some very skilled people are in open life
[13:08] Taxus Gustafson: yes, but theres also a darker side to sl which people are fed up with
[13:08] You: yes i agree taxus
[13:09] Taxus Gustafson: and of course LL won't take up complaints like that
[13:09] You: as a company they do whats good for business, not individuals
[13:09] Taxus Gustafson: so many petty crimes continue
[13:09] Tara Yeats: there's also the basic fact of burnout, disappoi8ntment when expectations aren't fulfilled, and people just moving on because its time
[13:09] Taxus Gustafson: yes
[13:09] Malburns Writer: there's a darker side to RL too - if can live with one liearn to live with parallel
[13:09] You: unfortunatly these individuals have large influences on the community
[13:09] You: well.. i mean the quality of the community
[13:10] You: quantity or quality, what do they want?
[13:10] Taxus Gustafson: some will always leave some will stay and build, wouldn't it be interesting to find out why in both cases
[13:10] You: i have said this over a year ago (in my 1st avitar) i said something like lets not let the commercials replace the tv show
[13:10] Taxus Gustafson: then maybe help improve things generally
[13:11] Taxus Gustafson: yes good analogy
[13:11] Taxus Gustafson: I need to go its getting dark here
[13:11] Taxus Gustafson: good meeting this week
[13:12] Malburns Writer: same here - have news to do
[13:12] You: ok great chatting with you
[13:12] Malburns Writer: will work on inworld skills list between now and next
[13:12] Tara Yeats: I like your tv/commercials line, Amilie!
[13:12] You: thanks
[13:12] You: its a balance
[13:12] You: this is why i use a yin yang symbol in my skype
[13:13] You: we are skilled professionals but we are building a world for residentst to play
[13:13] Malburns Writer: burnsmal on skype Amilie
[13:13] You: amilie.anatine
[13:14] Tara Yeats: tarayeats on skype
[13:14] You: i cant do voice during the day, im at work, but i chat on skype during the day
[13:14] You: ok do you want these listed in the log or taken out?
[13:14] You: im going to send this chat log to farnham
[13:14] You: (cant spell his name)
[13:14] You: BARRY
[13:14] Taxus Gustafson gave you TaxusG intro card.
[13:14] Tara Yeats: lol - we know who you mean
[13:15] Malburns Writer: can keep in if want
[13:15] You: tara?
[13:15] Tara Yeats: ok here too
[13:15] You: ok
[13:15] Malburns Writer: what is yr day - usa?
[13:15] You: me too ok
[13:15] You: im in mountain time in usa
[13:15] Tara Yeats: I'm US Pacific
[13:15] Tara Yeats: Mal's UK
[13:15] Malburns Writer: uk here - 9pm lol
[13:16] You: very nice to meet you both
[13:16] Tara Yeats: you too!
[13:16] You: im going to take off now

end of log